Class Balance and Class Limits

[Luminair]

We don't need limits.  Instead of set limits, talk to the players.  When I observe an abundence of individuals playing a single class, I directly chide them in both voice and text chat.  "Can we get some more snipers?" "We'd be winning if only we had some more snipers" when there's 6 already regularly gets folks to check the team composition, and often switch.

Class limits limit the chance for fun.  There have been nights with all snipers meleeing, or mass demoknights.  I can appreciate why someone would want limits, but this isn't a competition server.  If that's what you're looking for, Hyperion probably isn't the place for you based on the amount of folks that like screwing around.

Could you list the players other than your emc friends who feel strongly about this?  Just curious, as there seems to be "many".

[Wolfpup]

I don't have names (other than EMC+friends) as my memory is kinda bad. I just know I hear people complain both in chat and voice, quite frequently.

I to try the "can we please not have X snipers and spies, pretty please". Sure, it works sometimes, but it also gives those who enjoy griefing the opportunity to jump on the bandwagon. Yeah, fun for all.....

[Facetious tone:] Admittedly, I'm at the point I'll just play what I want too, screw teamwork. Sniper is my favourite class, so I guess I'll join the party. (Pretty piss poor attitude huh? Sorry, but if you can 't beat em, join em as they say...[/Facetious tone]...not really but I still need to vent!)

No class limits limits my fun. (On occasion, not always of course.) I'm only as good as the team I am on. I feel like there is really is no point in me try when others don't want to. TF2 takes teamwork. I really hate being like that, but I do not play games to get frustrated.

Last night the server had an abundance of my friends on, and the game was bloody fun!! A real slug fest from both sides. (Friends where on both teams.) And when we did have to many of a class, or 2, the "just ask them to switch" thing worked. Fun for all. Sadly, again, some see it as a call to join the stupidity.

I'll get over it, it's just been a fly in my ointment so to speak for a long time. I was just hoping others would share their feelings on the matter, but I suspect as to people who post here, I am in the minority. I do try and point people here to share their opinion, either way. If the masses don't have issue with 6+ spy-per teams, so be it.

Ah well, see you all in game.

[ApatheticMango]

On the flip side of that, people might just want to play sniper, regardless of winning or losing, and find it fun regardless. By adding class limits, you'd be limiting the amount of fun those players can have. Truthfully, that's the only reasonable argument I can see against class limits though.

[Waldo]

I don't like a limitation about classes, but I also don't like playing when I expect our team will be surely loss(no medic, too many non-heavy attack classes or stacking team).

In these times, we just need to use a scramble.

I think Hyperion people rarely do a scramble.

Maybe, the vote numbers are too high for a scramble?

[ApatheticMango]

Sonic brought up the point yesterday in-game, scrambles rarely make it better. More often than not it stacks the teams even more.

[Vic-Dog]

I always look at our team balance and I will play different classes to balance things out.
No spy though, I'm entirely useless as a spy. I think one thing that would help is to
NOT exempt donors to auto balance. When 20 out of 32 players are donors the scramble
doesn't really have much effect.

[Dave]

Donors aren't immune to auto scramble, only auto balance. At least, that's how it's supposed to be.

[Vic-Dog]

Ok, Thanks 

[chuy409]

How about a 64 player server? LOL I dont think its an engine bottleneck but a server limitation no? You need a good server to run 64 player. Hyperion being first 64 player server. That would probably fix Wolfpup's class limitations problem

[Wolfpup]

*proceeds to bang head on desk repeatedly*

The thought of a 64 slot server on maps designed for 24 players makes my head hurt. So does banging it on my desk.

[ApatheticMango]

Oh god. Imagine all that grenade spam. It'd be like the first part of Strike at Karkand all over again.

[Plasma]

I'm pretty sure TF2 is hardcoded to only support a maximum of 32 players.
You can cheat the system a little bit thanks to the replay and SourceTV bots, but that's it. There were Sourcemod/Metamod extensions at one point that allowed more freedom, but I never tried them.

It's also why to run a MvM server, you actually need as much resources as running a regular 32 player server. All these bots take a slot. I've seen a mod that allows for more players on the team, but I'm not sure how they work.

I'm pretty sure the server wouldn't be stable at all with more than 32 players. There are hardcoded maximums in the Source engine, especially on the number of entities spawned on a map. Quite a few Payload maps suffer from this problem with 32 players (with the cart, the end explosions, etc...), especially thundermountain.

Conclusion: we will not see a 64 player server. Maybe if Valve releases a new game mode that supports it, or in TF3?

[Wolfpup]

Conclusion: we will not see a 64 player server.

Maybe if Valve releases a new game mode that supports it, or in TF3?

Yay!

If the maps are designed for that many, I'd have no problem. 32 is troublesome at times let alone double that as is, so.....just imagine 64. *head explodes*

[chuy409]

I have seen 64 tf2 player servers a few years ago and they werent so bad. Man, Wolfpup you win this one, I wanted to see a volley of nades going towards you going back to the class limits. yes and no. yes I dont like sniper punks who are at the bottom of the leaderboard doing nothing and spies also. But think about it. I have a slow HDD. A less experienced player can have a fast SSD and beat me to the sniper slot. Also, snipers and spies can be very handy en-masse. Have you been in a situation where a full health-450 hp heavies jumps around a corner and you have 4 grenades or rockets which 100 percent sure you will not kill him with all those 4 nades or rockets. So basically dead meat. Then a miracle happens when a sniper takes him out before he can spin his minigun-450hp to tank to ALL your 4 nades or rockets and sniper comes to the rescue.

[Wolfpup]

I'm going to beg for spy and sniper to be limited to 2 each. Other than rare occasions, it just stalls the game, and people seem to get as annoyed as I do then leave with 6+ spy-pers. I just left a perfect example of this. 3 snipers and 3 spies on Blu, with 1 medic, we went nowhere, backwards in fact. (We had pushed with a better class balance in the beginning.) Several people (friends) left, and I think I know them well enough to know it was basically "what's the point in trying". (Seeing they had hardly been on for more than 25ish minutes. Usually 1 hr+) I know it's why I left. It's simply not fun to get trounced because there is no teamwork. We wouldn't have 3 of each if there was.

I know it's been said to just ask people to change, and sure, it works sometimes, but it also has the opposite effect at times. Frankly, I just hate always having to piss and moan to get people to try. I'm sure they are as sick of hearing it as much as I am of doing it!!

I don't expect Valve to fix TF2 (Remove random kritz.) but I am hoping this one annoyance can be dealt with on the Payload server. I don't play Payload 2 so I have no opinion on it.

*hands clasped together standing on knees*