*AuthorTopic: Class Balance and Class Limits  (Read 8467 times)

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Dave

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Re: Class Balance and Class Limits
« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2013, 06:15:18 PM »
Keep in mind that if you limit both spy and sniper to 2 each, then you're left with 28 players divided over 7 classes. That's 4 players per class. You're probably only gonna have 2 scouts, so that's 4.33 per the remaining classes class. Do you want 4 or 5 engineers? Probably not, limit it to 2. So that's 4.8 per the remaining classes class. Do you need 4 or 5 medics? 3 will do. So that's 5.25 per the remaining 4 classes. The remaining will probably be 3 pyros, 6 heavies, 6 demos, and 6 soldiers.

But I can see a max of 3 snipers and 3 spies working.
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Waldo

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Re: Class Balance and Class Limits
« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2013, 10:54:00 AM »
@Dave

Wolf wants 2spys/2snipers limit each side(Blu 2/2, Red2/2)
(16-4)/7=1.724 is an enough number FTW.

@Wolf
I think this server isn't a server for professional competitions.
I already gave up to try to win.  :P


ATARIS

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Re: Class Balance and Class Limits
« Reply #32 on: December 05, 2013, 12:03:40 PM »
I think they're fine the way they are now.  Sometimes people want to do a team huntsman and that's fun.  3 spies workout ... If you have 3 good ones on red they can really challenge the blue team to spy check more

Wolfpup

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Re: Class Balance and Class Limits
« Reply #33 on: December 05, 2013, 12:27:51 PM »
But I can see a max of 3 snipers and 3 spies working.

With rare exceptions, that is when things tend to stall from my observations. 3/3=stall, 3/2 or 2/3 is better, but can still be to much support, not enough push. (As we all know snipers hide at the back of the map waiting for those cherry shots. Spies tend to head to their spawn/ignore cart....ect.)

@Dave

Wolf wants 2spys/2snipers limit each side(Blu 2/2, Red2/2)
(16-4)/7=1.724 is an enough number FTW.

Yup. I think 2/2 is perfect for 32 slot servers. If I had my way in game, we would always have 3 medics as well, either side. 3 medics with 32 is what I have come to know to work. Having to many medics is detrimental too because then you again start to lose the "push" classes.

To much p***y, not enough push as I say.

@Wolf
I think this server isn't a server for professional competitions.
I already gave up to try to win.  :P

Forgive me, but that is a polite way of saying "it's a pub". Personally, when people say that my thinking is, "so?". It's a team based game, so one would thing people would play as a team, no? I don't expect people to be pro, but it would be nice if people didn't hinder the game for others, those of us who like a good slug fest vs being rolled. 

I know a lot of the SOP transplants are like me and still enjoy a good game when people do try and play the game as intended, with teamwork. When it's just so lopsided because people want to play what they want team be damned, a lot of us leave.

I know it's all just my opinion but after all these years of playing I still really enjoy this, the one and only online multi-player game I play. Though it gets harder and harder at times to find any joy in it.

Take it for what it is, just my opinion. I will continue to play, as I mentioned, I still love this game when we have really balanced, fun games. Steam rolls, or getting steamrolled simply is not fun, when it could have been avoided with a little tactful thought. (One just need look at classes when these things happen and it's rather self evident why it's happening. Not always, but more often than not.)

See ya in game.

Dave

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Re: Class Balance and Class Limits
« Reply #34 on: December 05, 2013, 05:06:28 PM »
Oops @ math. I knew something seemed off when I hit post. And I thought this was the admin forum. Yeah 2 sniper/spy per side seems reasonable.
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Wolfpup

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Re: Class Balance and Class Limits
« Reply #35 on: December 05, 2013, 06:56:17 PM »
Yeah 2 sniper/spy per side seems reasonable.

Yay, support! :) Danke.


P.S.

Again, last night, I saw evidence my theory of 3/3+ stalls the game proven correct. As soon as I asked and we went to 1/1, the cart started moving again, imagine that. /facetiousness.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 08:37:07 AM by Wolfpup »

Thanatos

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Re: Class Balance and Class Limits
« Reply #36 on: December 07, 2013, 06:53:33 AM »
Again, last night, I saw evidence my theory of 3/3+ stalls the game proven correct. As soon as I asked and we went to 1/1, the cart started moving again, imagine that. /facetiousness.

There's already a cap of 3 spies but I don't think such a cap exists on snipers, I know for a fact I've had class full messages on spy. Hell once I was the only spy then all of a sudden I was forced to pick another class in between deaths because all of a sudden there were 3 other spies.

Forced class balance is a very slippery slope, if you cut down to 2/2 you could end up with two shitty randoms and some frustrated main who can't play his desired class. I think a restriction to 3 snipers is needed, or even better a max of 5 between the two classes though I'm not sure if that's possible.

The other thing is spy & sniper heavy on Red can work especially when defending a final push point, but on Blu it's absolutely detrimental to pushing the cart when Red has any sort of organized defense.


Wolfpup

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Re: Class Balance and Class Limits
« Reply #37 on: December 07, 2013, 08:41:52 AM »
Yeah, you hear the spy voice say "No" when there are 3 already. And you are correct, no limit on sniper....why we had 4/3 last night.....and guess what happened? Yup, game stalled...surprised? I am not.

However, I did play a game where we had 3/3 and we actually did pretty good, but, I suspect the other team was either 3/3 themselves and we just had a slight edge on the assault classes with 3 medics, or they were just bad players. It wasn't quite a steam roll, but I was surprised we pushed as well as we did. (A rarity.)

I'd be content with a trial period even. Test the waters, see what the community thinks in a week or two.

Wolfpup

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Re: Class Balance and Class Limits
« Reply #38 on: December 09, 2013, 10:37:10 AM »
Oh joy. So I joined the server this morning, and it was "team sniper". We were playing Frontier and Red had 5 snipers. So I decided "if ya can't beat em join em". So we then had 6, then 7 as I suspect someone else decided the same thing......"if ya can't beat em join em".

We seemed to have confounded Blu as we actually managed to hold them off for a bit, but as always, Blu team adapted, and we got pushed back, then pushed back some more. I switched to spy (making it 2) and we were down to 5.

Finally, people started to switch off and we got down to 2 snipers, 2 spies and 3 medics, with a couple engies, and wouldn't ya know it, we managed to win the game. *shocked face*

It would really be nice if we could clamp this stuff down. Again, my opinion is on a 32 slot server there is never a need for more than 2/2, yet I'd even be happy with 3/3 at this stage to prevent this nonsense.

/pissing and moaning
« Last Edit: December 09, 2013, 02:47:24 PM by Wolfpup »

Poppin-Fresh

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Re: Class Balance and Class Limits
« Reply #39 on: December 09, 2013, 02:14:28 PM »
I'm gonna chime and agree with Wolfpup on this. I thought I was alone thinking about this but a 2 per class limit would strike a perfect balance. The amount of demospam is a bit overboard as well. Hyperion has become the only server I play on because the level of maturity and competent players is far beyond that of any other pub servers I've played. I know most of the regulars are pretty well versed class wise. 5/9 I feel I can play very well and make contribution to the team. Maybe a donation perk should be in order to be void from the class limit?

And yes. I would be all for a vote option on disabling random crits or having no random crits altogether on the main server. IMO, it's nothing but BS.

chuy409

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Re: Class Balance and Class Limits
« Reply #40 on: December 09, 2013, 07:58:54 PM »
I'm gonna chime and agree with Wolfpup on this. I thought I was alone thinking about this but a 2 per class limit would strike a perfect balance. The amount of demospam is a bit overboard as well. Hyperion has become the only server I play on because the level of maturity and competent players is far beyond that of any other pub servers I've played. I know most of the regulars are pretty well versed class wise. 5/9 I feel I can play very well and make contribution to the team. Maybe a donation perk should be in order to be void from the class limit?

And yes. I would be all for a vote option on disabling random crits or having no random crits altogether on the main server. IMO, it's nothing but BS.

by having no crits i think you mean no random crit. Because not even having crits would be a serious problem. That would make the kritkrieg useless. If you are meaning by random crit and not weapons that you earn crits (like kritzkreig, charging shields, cleaner's carbine, jarate, headshots, backstabs, direct hit airborne enemies etc etc) then some are fine by it.

Poppin-Fresh

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Re: Class Balance and Class Limits
« Reply #41 on: December 09, 2013, 08:07:51 PM »
Hence why I say RANDOM crits in my post which you quoted chuy. :)

Yes I'm all for the kritzkrieg and other weapons that have critz built into the featureset.

Pyrelight2112

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Re: Class Balance and Class Limits
« Reply #42 on: March 26, 2014, 02:01:33 PM »
Just adding my 2 cents to the thread. I appreciate the well thought out reasoning behind only limiting the spy class. Yes seeing 4 snipers is a bummer, especially when 3 of them are the same guys every moment of their play time and aren't that good at it. I'm usually one of those very vocal types that point out we need fewer snipers and more of X class. But the reality is, I don't see a need for a hard cap. It is usually a temporary issue and sorts itself out in short order. Either by those of us that are vehemently requesting they change class or by those that take a round off and grief the offending snipers until they change class. I read in an earlier post the concept of "verified" members not being capped (I have no clue if this is even possible) but if the server went in that direction, then I'd support a hard cap on the three major classes at 2.

Sparrow

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Re: Class Balance and Class Limits
« Reply #43 on: March 26, 2014, 04:04:25 PM »
What I would give for limiting the spy and sniper to 1...

Only have to worry about 1 sniper? It's like he isn't even there!
1 Spy? I ain't even mad!

Haha on a serious note though, 3 spies and snipers seems to be a good number.
Not all those who wander are lost.

Wolfpup

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Re: Class Balance and Class Limits
« Reply #44 on: March 26, 2014, 04:15:09 PM »
2 is plenty.

Anything more just takes away from the assault classes/medics needed to do much of anything.

My 2 cents.