*AuthorTopic: Class Balance and Class Limits  (Read 7594 times)

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Dave

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Class Balance and Class Limits
« on: August 19, 2011, 06:48:00 PM »
The most common complaint on the server is about too many people playing one class. On the payload server we use a Class Limit plugin. Currently only the spy class is limited, and this is because we found that too many spies, especially good ones, would make games unfun.

Feel free to discuss anything regarding class balance or class limits here.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2011, 07:35:56 PM by Dave »
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AlienDeceptions

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Re: Class Balance
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2011, 12:35:51 AM »
You do? I have seen as many as four spy's at a time and yes that is unfun. Anything over two is unfun. They should also have a longer respawn time.

Dave

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Re: Class Balance
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2011, 12:53:37 AM »
Currently the spy limit is 3. It's possible that a spy got team switched to a team whose spy class was full. And I definitely agree about spies. Too many can make a game unfun. Maybe we'll lower the cap to 2.
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T-Shirt Ninja

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Re: Class Balance
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2011, 08:42:44 AM »
I would consider capping engineers as well, because having 5 or 6 engineers can put a complete halt to a team that doesn't do things exactly right. Maybe a cap at 4 engineers? I know that I can usually push through 4 sentries on a single uber, so a halfway competent team should be able to deal with it.

Plasma

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Re: Class Balance
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2011, 11:19:05 AM »
We talked about putting hard caps on some classes, mainly spies, engies and snipers. Spies we had to set it to 3, because 4-6 spies can really destroy game balance and fun (especially if they're good spies).

We didn't want to hard cap the snipers and engies, because "usually" other players in-game will tell (or yell) players that pick these overcrowded classes to switch. It doesn't always work obviously. The other reason is that if you join the game late, and there are 3 snipers already (and they all suck), well you can't join the class. So hard capping class might prevent a good sniper to do his job correctly, and might be frustrating.

Dave has been trying to design some kind of "smart" class balance for a while. Let's just say that for now plugin development has been semi-halted because of our current traffic problems.
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sour skittles

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Re: Class Balance
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2011, 03:20:49 PM »
if class limits does destroy the fun and the game at some point, one thing we could consider is to have class limits according to the map.  Some maps would have a cap on engineers and some would not. 

One time I was playing on another server and they capped the engineer to allow just 1 player.  Because everyone who tried to select engineer know that the engineer caps at 1 player, the engineer player now has burden on his shoulders to protect his sentry for his team.  I guess it makes people to play hard and play responsibly or you would get yelled at haha

But again, tf2 should be played for fun right? haha   

Bubble Man

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Re: Class Balance
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2011, 12:20:01 AM »
The only time I notice class issues is on Blu team when you look and notice your whole team is snipers/engies/spys.  Not much you can do but yell at em.  I'm pretty much against class caps since its just an annoyance, most people have 1 or 2 main classes they play or they just won't play.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2011, 02:38:53 AM by Bubble Man »

sour skittles

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Re: Class Balance
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2011, 02:57:21 PM »
another thing is that people hate spies because they suck and don't contribute to the team rather than being too good and ruining the game.  So its more of a issue of which class contributes the most since tf2 is such a teamwork demanding game

AlienDeceptions

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Re: Class Balance
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2011, 04:17:45 PM »
another thing is that people hate spies because they suck and don't contribute to the team rather than being too good and ruining the game.  So its more of a issue of which class contributes the most since tf2 is such a teamwork demanding game

You saying I suck? LOL

sour skittles

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Re: Class Balance
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2011, 06:30:04 PM »
no way haha,  they told me i suck too and should change my class to something useful.
spy is just a hated class in general in all aspects haha


Hadden

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Re: Class Balance
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2011, 06:40:11 PM »
Skittles you are one epically annoying spy haha.

Just leave my nest alone!  :D

Cirno

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Re: Class Balance
« Reply #11 on: October 06, 2011, 07:04:28 AM »
Here's an idea on the class limits: max of 4 engineers, 2 snipers, 2 spies. The kicker is, class limits don't apply to verified members. I think it would definitely encourage more people to sign up, and players who are good at a class won't be annoyed if their favorite class is already occupied by some fine f2p gentleman.

Wolfpup

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Re: Class Balance
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2013, 12:14:56 PM »
Uuuhg. Ok, I have to vent/rant.

The last couple days the sniper/spy issue has been really bad. We had 6 bloody snipers and 3 spies on Blu today, no medics, and similar numbers yesterday as well.

We didn't want to hard cap the snipers and engies, because "usually" other players in-game will tell (or yell) players that pick these overcrowded classes to switch. It doesn't always work obviously.

Sometimes it does, sometimes even more people pile onto the class just to be D-Bags. Ruining it for those of use who play TF2 for the teamwork and who actually try for the objectives.

The other reason is that if you join the game late, and there are 3 snipers already (and they all suck), well you can't join the class. So hard capping class might prevent a good sniper to do his job correctly, and might be frustrating.

I find it more frustrating having to deal with the BS. In my opinion, if bad snipers take up slots, so be it, but just limit the damage to 2, spies as well.

It drives me nuts when people say "it's a pub, who cares"..... I do, and many of my friends do to. (And they to play Hyperion) We don't play comp, but we still like a good game. Just because it's a pub doesn't mean some should be able to ruin it for others.

We shouldn't have to nag players to switch. I do not enjoy it! (Though I do do it.)

I'm not alone, there have been a lot of others complaining the last few days as well. I keep telling people to come to the forums and make their opinion known. Sadly, not a lot of people join forums to do so.

I'm begging you, please, limit spy/sniper. If for nothing else but my sanity......please?

Maybe we could try it for a bit, see how it flies?

Even after all these years, I still love this game. I just hate how others can ruin my experience by not being team players......in Team Fortress 2. It's not called Solo Fortress 2.

Something else I wanted to add, could we maybe try having a "No random kritz *whatever day here*"? It would give people a chance to experience it and see what comes of it. There really is no need for randoms on a 32 slot server seeing the game was designed for 24. The extra players offset the need for randoms. Is is possible, if you don't want this change permanent, a vote system could be set up and the players currently on can initiate the vote and let the current players decide? I'd even be happy with that, as a second option. I'd still prefer them simply removed, period.

/rant+venting

Christian

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Re: Class Balance and Class Limits
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2013, 12:41:16 PM »
I am comfortable with 3 snipers 3 spies. 2 seems too low for players who actually play it well. I don't think there should be limits on other classes.

Wolfpup

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Re: Class Balance and Class Limits
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2013, 12:47:37 PM »
I do not see any need for more than 2 of each.

6/16 players as spy-pers is just not conducive with the goal at hand. The snipers hide at the back of the map, waiting for cherry shots. It really drags the team down. Just my opinion of course but as mentioned, I know it's shared by many who play.


P.S.

Oh hey, joined game, 4 snipers..... :( *sigh*
« Last Edit: September 06, 2013, 12:51:44 PM by Wolfpup »