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Team Fortress 2 => General Discussion => Topic started by: audeeo on July 24, 2013, 05:09:33 AM

Title: Class Limits?
Post by: audeeo on July 24, 2013, 05:09:33 AM: Does anyone else feel like there should be a limit of how many of each class a team can have? I'm currently connected to the main server and there are 9 snipers on the red team. Maybe it's just me who thinks this is a problem. But I would love some feedback on what everyone else thinks too.
Title: Re: Class Limits?
Post by: iShank on July 24, 2013, 12:53:05 PM: Yeah class limits on classes other than the spy would be nice. Maybe 4 snipers max?
Title: Re: Class Limits?
Post by: Sandie on July 24, 2013, 12:56:23 PM: I'd think if there were class limits it should be even for all classes. A team doesn't need 9 spies anymore then they need 9 snipers lol.
Title: Re: Class Limits?
Post by: chuy409 on July 24, 2013, 06:11:32 PM: There should be no class limitations except sniper and spy-capping it at 3 each.
Title: Re: Class Limits?
Post by: ATARIS on July 24, 2013, 09:54:20 PM: I don't know about limiting sniper class. Really when there are instances of 5+ snipers it dwindles down after being called out loud. Besides remember the rounds where we'd like to goof off and all choose one of the same class (except spy)?

I think those rare moments are fun.
Title: Re: Class Limits?
Post by: audeeo on July 25, 2013, 01:01:19 AM: i agree with sadie that there should be a limit on every class. what's the point in trying to push if the other team has 6 sentries watching a choke. IE. pl_upward, last point. but on the other hand, i do agree with ataris. it rarely happens when you can get everyone on a server to participate in unwritten rules, but when that happens it's fucken awesome.
Title: Re: Class Limits?
Post by: nostylee on July 26, 2013, 09:31:34 PM: There really shouldn't be class limits. And if there are, then donors should have immunity. The only problem I have with capping snipers and spies is usually you will have one or two people play the same class hugging the bottom of the scoreboard. It gives people with slow load times a disadvantage and makes it frustrating to play as you wish. If anyone remembers Day of Defeat: Source, you know what it's like.
Title: Re: Class Limits?
Post by: ApatheticMango on July 30, 2013, 11:02:03 PM: A class cap on Engineer would be nice. Last point of Upward and Barn Blitz are damn near impossible with 4 or more Engineers.
Title: Re: Class Limits?
Post by: Wolfpup on July 31, 2013, 07:31:57 AM: I've always felt sniper and spy needs capping on any server. Anything after 2 is simply dumb in my opinion. It ruins the game. I think a lot of people do it just to grief. (When you say something, other people decide to go play that class to......very annoying.)

I like this game, when people are actually playing as a team. 5+ Spy-pers (any combination) is counter productive to this game. The more support classes, the less the pushing power.

As far as engy, I've never had a real problem with limits. They have 4+ engies? Get 3-4 (good) medics to build uber and go in as a team....as Charley would say...."Winning".

So yeah, I'm in favour of limiting spy and sniper. Possibly scout to. (2x2x2)

No matter what, do not limit medics though. Medics are important!!
Title: Re: Class Limits?
Post by: audeeo on August 01, 2013, 06:57:42 PM: i think 3 of each class would be best. but its not like this is going to be input into the server. just some friendly discussions on what everyone else thinks.
Title: Re: Class Limits?
Post by: TopGun on August 03, 2013, 01:14:07 AM: I think admins ought to limit each class to a max of 3, which would force others to be something the team needs. 9 of anything is too much, unless both teams were all snipers or some other class, just for fun. I have played where we all only used melee weapons and no guns and it was fun. ;)
Title: Re: Class Limits?
Post by: nostylee on August 04, 2013, 07:29:42 AM: Limiting each class to three is absurd. You're forcing people to play something they don't want to play, which in turn, forces them to find another server. I have never seen a server limit every class.
Title: Re: Class Limits?
Post by: Sandie on August 04, 2013, 12:41:30 PM: I used to play on the -TN- servers and they had class restrictions of 3 per class but donators were immune to the restrictions. Added incentive to donate and all that.
Title: Re: Class Limits?
Post by: cassis on August 06, 2013, 03:16:00 AM: with the exception of spy and sniper, i don't think the classes should be capped. the dynamics of a game change based on the various combinations of classes on each team, which in my opinion is what makes overplayed maps like goldrush and badwater barely tolerable. capping classes like medic and engineer would make gameplay repetitive, needing a certain amount of ubers to get through sentries and sentries would only be able to be placed in so many strategic locations. a volley of demo spam may be frustrating, but it also makes the game interesting.

classes shouldn't be capped because they make a team stronger, there's always ways to counter things like demo kritz if people are competent. what should be capped are classes that drag the whole team down if they play horribly, like sniper and spy.
Title: Re: Class Limits?
Post by: Falconeer on August 06, 2013, 02:19:58 PM: IMHO,
I see Hyperion as a high skill server. I haven't seen class counts being a problem. The couple of times I've seen a team with 'too many' of a class they generally were rolled fairly quickly. Having been on both sides, it sucks to be on the skewed team. However, it's a self-correcting problem. Putting limits in place just seems like more attention than the issue deserves.

Falc

PS: I play here because I believe the best way to improve is get killed (a LOT) by better players. :D
Title: Re: Class Limits?
Post by: Janet Jackson on August 07, 2013, 10:15:39 AM: I wouldn't want any class limits... What if a class is maxed out with people who can't handle their role? Like if you cap engies but all the engies on the team can't or won't get a gun up, and no one can be like well these engies can't get a gun up I'll go engi and get this done.

And if it doesn't seem realistic that there could be 4 engies and no one actually accomplishing anything (not considering a scenario where the demos are all up in your business at the point and there's nothing anyone could do to get a building up anyway) well it I would say is as possible as 9 people deciding to go sniper
Title: Re: Class Limits?
Post by: chuy409 on August 07, 2013, 01:48:31 PM: As you can see in the class selection in Red Orchestra 2, you are limited in each class and by all means, the game is still intense no matter what class someone picks. I know that RO2 and TF2 are very different games but you get the idea. Now, I know some classes shouldn't be limited like Soldier, medic etc. but we can limit on heavy,engi,sniper,demo, and spy because those classes in high number are pretty iffy IMO. Even with only 2 slots as sniper in RO2, there was no interest in the class with only 1-unlike TF2 where 90 percent of the time there is 2+ snipers or spies.

As far in RO2, when other classes are full, you are stuck as Rifleman (my personal favorita class) so i am not affected. But like who has a slow Hard drive and will take longer to load maps, or come in the game late, I will not get to pick my favorite class because they will be full like sniper. So I could go both ways when it comes to class limits.

(http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/903255624302364046/CEEB83708D7E03B913674F5F77DF021960114E45/)

Admin Edit: Resized picture.
Title: Re: Class Limits?
Post by: Plasma on August 07, 2013, 02:13:54 PM: This is another interesting discussion.
--
I want to clear up any confusion with our current Class limits and try to explain why we've set the servers that way. I'll also share my own opinion. Feel free however to keep the discussion going, nothing is ever set in stone, and feedback is always very important for us to make sure the servers are always fun to play on.
--

We are limiting only 1 class: the Spy. There can only be 2 spies per team when there are less than 18 players on the server. When there are 18 or more players, there can only be 3 spies per team.
Donors and admins are allowed to pick Spy even if the class is "full" (this feature hasn't been tested in a while; please report if it's not working as intended).

Reason for limiting the spy class only:
We've decided that the Spy is the only class that can really be overpowered when played en masse by skilled players (and we do have a lot of very good spies on Payload).
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I don't like limiting all classes; if people want to play a particular class, they should be able to (except spy for the reason above). While the server has a pretty high skill level for a public 32 slot server, it's not supposed to be a competitive pro match. A team with 6 snipers will have a very high chance of losing if nobody switches to a class that is needed. Choosing a class depending on whether you're attacking or defending is part of the strategy in TF2. Notice the opposite team has only 1 Pyro? 3 Spies will get rid of all defenses very quickly. A team with 6 engies? A couple of demo/medic teams and the sentries are gone. Changing the team composition on the fly requires some teamwork and strategy. Heck, sometimes just going with 6 scouts to push that cart down the last capping point might be a good idea (maybe? lol).

If we force arbitrary class limits, then we're restricting strategy and gameplay, I feel. I've also noticed when the team composition is unbalanced, team members will speak out and request someone to switch from sniper to a medic for example. Does it work nicely all the time? Nope, but it doesn't have to. If a team with 6 snipers gets steamrolled, the autoscramble should kick in and make sure the teams are a bit more balanced the next time around. It's not a perfect system, obviously, but I like to have more freedom than restrictions.

Finally, when you're artificially limiting classes, there's always a high risk of having 3 bad snipers preventing that one skilled sniper to do his job, leading to a lot of frustration from both the guy trying to play sniper and his team yelling at the bad snipers to switch class.