*AuthorTopic: Turning Dead Talk On  (Read 3446 times)

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MissMonaLisa

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Turning Dead Talk On
« on: April 21, 2014, 05:32:17 AM »
I know that there was a thread created about this a few years ago, but I wanted to make a new one and revisit the subject.

Ever since I started frequenting Hyperion more and more recently, I've loved it so much more than any other server. It is now the only server I choose to play on. The only thing that maybe makes it less enjoyable for me is that there is no dead talk. If you don't know what that is, it means to be able to type or speak on the mic while you are dead, and for people that are alive to be able to hear you. Also the other team can read your chat while you're dead even if they're alive, but they can't hear your voice so its not all talk. And at the end of the round, all talk is turned on which makes it more fun.

Every other server I've played on has it and it makes game-play much easier. When dead talk is on, we can communicate with our teammates much better. For example, if a sentry is down they can push. I feel that this kind of expanded communication can really help teamwork and improve coordination. I have just felt frustrated at times when I killed a sentry or something, and was not able to let my team know, therefore no one pushed up and the gun was rebuilt.

I read that one of the concerns is people "ghosting" for their team, or calling out things they see like "spy behind you". Or perhaps someone mic spamming and making it hard for the team to hear. Or about spamming chat if angry. I used to be a regular in the TN payload rotation, which still has deadtalk, and I can vouch for it and say that none of this has ever been a problem. I have never seen a person call out a spy or whatever to an alive teammate. Spies are actually very successful and do quite well in the server, so it wouldn't affect their gaming. People don't talk a lot on the mic while dead so it isn't an issue. If someone is mic spamming, they are doing it throughout the whole game, dead or alive, so that is an admin issue to deal with. In my experience, not too many people use voice chat anyways. In hyperion, I rarely hear people speaking on the mic. I am one of the few. So I know this wouldn't be an issue.

And on another note, I feel that hyperion regulars are much more respectful and reasonable people, so I don't see issues like trying to get back at someone, or spamming chat, even while dead. When the server is full, which it usually is, by a lot of people that are regulars, I don't think these things would be an issue. Dead talk has worked out very well, and helped teams work together much better so I think we should just give it a try at least. If it doesn't work it can be changed. i understand that there will still probably be people that do call out things they shouldn't, or talk more than they should whether its chat or voice, but i feel that Hyperion is a much more "well-behaved" place so I don't see those issues becoming common occurrences. It's worth trying. Also, I don't think we should be concerned with keeping dead talk off just to help out spies lol. It's the only one that would really be affected by this, and even IF this is true, spies are very overpowered anyways, if you guys haven't noticed. Especially when I play on the server, they are just killing everyone at a very high rate. I doubt a few calls would ruin their game-play.

Many of my friends, and other regulars that I have spoken with, have expressed the same feelings as I have, and would like to see it turned on for the server.

I made this post to see if there are others that can voice their opinion and if enough people show interest, it can be changed. I think we should vote for a trial period that's all! Not permanent. Just to see if it could work. So what do you guys think?!  :)

Sparrow

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Re: Turning Dead Talk On
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2014, 07:14:58 AM »
Agreed!

Unless we can get everyone on mumble, this is the next best thing for added communication.
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Plasma

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Re: Turning Dead Talk On
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2014, 11:05:16 AM »
Hey MissMonaLisa,

Welcome to the forums and our community in general!

Dead talk is a frequent topic, and as you mentioned it's been discussed here in the past (and several times "internally"). We even had DeadTalk ON back when our 2nd server was AllTalk enabled.

I'll update this post with more details and my thoughts on this later tonight when I have more time (especially since you've made a lot of good points).

As always, we welcome feedback/opinions from everyone, so anybody reading, feel free to jump in and share your thoughts on this particular issue.
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BastidBen

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Re: Turning Dead Talk On
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2014, 12:13:33 PM »
Been a long time since i've mesed with tf2. Does the tf_teamtalk setting only apply to say command, or does it apply to voicerecord too?

Nevdawg88

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Re: Turning Dead Talk On
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2014, 12:52:07 PM »
Agreed! I don't think dead talk (or whatever it is called) effects gameplay in any negative way. It allows more communication between a player and his own team or a player and the opposing team. I believe even in a more serious games like CS:GO, dead talk is on by default in the official Valve servers.

And in terms of possibilities of ghosting, I don't think it would be a problem because it's not like you can spectate enemy players and inform your team of what they are doing the whole time you are dead. You can only inform them of what you saw when you died, which would be helpful for everyone.

And considering how often players die, its kind of annoying having to wait for them to respawn 15 seconds later to have them talk again :(

In any case, great servers!

kalmoa

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Re: Turning Dead Talk On
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2014, 01:55:48 PM »
Fernplant had a few concerns with this a few years ago, and I'd like to address them accordingly.

1. The other team will be able to call out "Hey Player1, turn around there is a spy behind you." with the advantage of being able to jump to any player and have a 360 camera view around them

Spies will be called out irrespective of a person's mortality. And when a person dies, they are not automatically thinking "Let me click on as many players as I can to find spies in a 3rd person 360 degree camera view." When you are dead, you tend to look at the time left, how many players are alive, what you can relay to the team that will allow for a successful push/defend, openings for big plays and other things. A good spy will do his job regardless of the communication between teammates. In highlander, there is less players (easier to be seen), more communication (harder to execute), yet great spies are extremely effective. Dead talk acts as a TF2 embedded mumble, and teaches players to communicate to help their team win.

2.Warn the team of impeding flanks
Isn't this a good thing? If your team is getting flanked, you should be able to communicate that. This should actually influence your enemies to become better at flanking and maybe correct their timing or routes while they flank.

3.Let your teammates know where the red Spy/Scout is near your spawn that is constantly taking out your teles.
Again, why isn't this a good thing? And sometimes spawn times are really short, maybe less than 10 seconds. After that 10 seconds is up, aren't you going to communicate this information anyway? Is that 10 seconds of dead talk disabled actually THAT beneficial to the spy/scout circling spawn?

Plasma also commented on this. He said, this will cause cluttered comms. If people are cluttering the comms, this would happen regardless of if they are alive or dead. And typically, in hyperion, people don't communicate very much using the MIC. More than half the people are silent, with the rest typing in chat. He stated it might also encourage trolling - Again, the troll will troll regardless of if he is dead or alive. If you don't want people 'spamming' the chat, you can setup a rule for that or auto-gag them if they continue.

He also stated that keeping dead talk off increases skill level. This is actually the complete opposite. Leaving it off decreases skill level all around, because it is easy for the enemy to initiate and harder for the friendly to communicate. If the friendly communicate, it will become harder for the enemy to initiate which will force the enemy to become more tactical, which results in a higher skill cap.

People keep stating that it wouldn't be TF2 if you were allowed to communicate that a spy sapped your building as an engy, or if a spy is at spawn behind everyone. Isn't TF2 a TEAM game? Teams communicate, and if you're worried about your sapper being unsapped due to another engy receiving comms from a person using dead talk, maybe you shouldn't constantly assume that. There are other players on the team that also see things happening in front of them. They MIGHT also comm as well... But even if the result of every comm came from dead talk, so what? Again, if you're the spy circling at spawn, the person will communicate this when he becomes alive. And, as I said before, you'd be forced to become more tactical.

As Mona already stated, TN servers have dead talk on, and it is still relatively simple to succeed in your spy play. Over the years, people have become more and more paranoid of spies,  which forced spies to take a different approach. I think people who are complaining about deadtalk causing spies to be limited should go play in a deadtalk enabled server and come back with their conclusion. I, along with many others, can vouch that the skilled player (spy, scout, etc...) will succeed irrespective of all-talk, dead talk or chat.

BastidBen

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Re: Turning Dead Talk On
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2014, 04:26:42 PM »
i think its a non issue really, 32 person pub servers are such a non competitive spam-fest, so having competitive type rules on them is silly

MissMonaLisa

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Re: Turning Dead Talk On
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2014, 05:17:39 PM »
Hey MissMonaLisa,

Welcome to the forums and our community in general!

Dead talk is a frequent topic, and as you mentioned it's been discussed here in the past (and several times "internally"). We even had DeadTalk ON back when our 2nd server was AllTalk enabled.

I'll update this post with more details and my thoughts on this later tonight when I have more time (especially since you've made a lot of good points).

As always, we welcome feedback/opinions from everyone, so anybody reading, feel free to jump in and share your thoughts on this particular issue.
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(And thank you for your big donation :) )

Hey Plasma,

Thank you! And it's nice to finally "meet" you haha. And you're welcome. I really do enjoy playing on your server the most. I look forward to hearing your views and hopefully we can find a way to make this happen! I know other people in the server have wanted it to, but I have to track them down or add them on steam to ask them to share their views on the forums. I know that most don't go on here.

Replacementklr[IAOA]

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Re: Turning Dead Talk On
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2014, 05:21:27 PM »
turn it on!!!!! do it up, it makes sense. all the other popular servers have it ON.  DO IT!!
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MissMonaLisa

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Re: Turning Dead Talk On
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2014, 05:32:51 PM »
I like the points that kalmoa addressed as well. I've actually played some competitive for awhile, and I know others have as well, and in competitive mode, either 6's or highlander, there is dead talk, so the other team can read dead chat, and your team can hear you when you're dead. Or people use mumble. But this does increase the competitiveness of the game. People work harder to talk to their team and help them out and try to win. As Ben said though, it's hard to be competitive in the server since there is a lot of randomness and spam. But we can at least try to be that way if that is a concern.

I was actually going to mention the same point too about how when people die, they arent really looking for spies or things to call out. Usually people are waiting to respawn and perhaps talking about what they accomplished before they died, like a gun down or whatever. I don't even think about it either. But I do hear people call out spies a lot even when they're alive, i don't think it makes it easier if you're dead. People might be more aware if they're alive and don't want to get spied.

But yeah I can discuss stuff further if someone posts more points against it, or responses to these and we can carry on the convo!

HeepHoP

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Re: Turning Dead Talk On
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2014, 05:41:43 PM »
look at all these smiley faces  :) ;) :D ;D >:( :( :o 8) ??? ::) :P :-[ :-X :-\ :-* :'( :'(

yolo420swagitlol  8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)




btw, ya we shld hav dedtak it a rully gud ideea, hlp teem 5evr

HeepHoP

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Re: Turning Dead Talk On
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2014, 05:45:23 PM »
ya turn it on okie

sleepybeararmed

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Re: Turning Dead Talk On
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2014, 06:36:10 PM »
turn it on!!!!! do it up, it makes sense. all the other popular servers have it ON.  DO IT!!

What this guy said. It's trueeeeeeee.

(ps. the hell is up with this verification bs.)

EverLast

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Re: Turning Dead Talk On
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2014, 06:45:03 PM »
Deadtalk is an essential part of playing a public 32 man server. In pubs communication is key and when you're dead you currently don't have the key. You are keyless. Servers with keys have been proven by research to become 25% more popular than the next server with keys. Do not be one of those servers who throttle their player to player experience by not having any keys. We need deadtalk. It'll make the server experience more larutaN.

yolo420swagitlol  8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

Eraserpie

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Re: Turning Dead Talk On
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2014, 07:19:35 PM »
Quick kind of unrelated question, is there a mumble server for Hyperion?
hi its hairflip