*AuthorTopic: Lag issues lately  (Read 6440 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

n.

  • Verified Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Country: 00
  • Karma: +0/-5
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Lag issues lately
« on: December 10, 2013, 11:51:16 AM »
So I've noticed a lot of lag lately, and I'm pretty sure it's the server. The reason I think it's server side is that (a) I'm not seeing it on other servers with similar latency and (b) the net graph seems to indicate it, if I'm reading it correctly. See attached screenshot. It's my understanding that the red ticks on the lower green line indicate that the server is falling below 10fps? It was pretty bad last night.

edit: so I don't think I was reading it correctly (just re-read the wiki page on the net graph) I think it's mostly packet loss I'm seeing.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 11:57:55 AM by n. »

Wolfpup

  • TF2 Admin - Rank: 2
  • Junior Admin
  • ***
  • Posts: 336
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Country: ca
  • Karma: +4/-26
    • View Profile
Re: Lag issues lately
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2013, 12:48:40 PM »
I don't fully understand this stuff myself but yeah, "loss" and "choke" are the 2 important parts as I understand it.

I haven't been monitoring netgraph lately but I have noticed lag myself. The game literally stops for a split second then carries on, though everyone is now in a new place from where they where beforehand.

I'm assuming it is also lag (compensation) that makes me miss when they are RIGHT in front of me and the reticle is centre of body mass. No ding, no numbers flying up, rather frustrating.

n.

  • Verified Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Country: 00
  • Karma: +0/-5
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Lag issues lately
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2013, 01:05:06 PM »
All I know is this isn't a normal looking graph. If I hop on another server with a ~70-80ish ping, the graph is continuous without all these gaps, and the gameplay is much smoother.

n.

  • Verified Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Country: 00
  • Karma: +0/-5
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Lag issues lately
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2013, 03:42:58 PM »
Well today it's much better. Not sure what changed.

edit: spoke too soon, still really bad.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 04:03:06 PM by n. »

Plasma

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2266
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Country: us
  • Karma: +59/-1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • HyperionGaming.org
Re: Lag issues lately
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2013, 04:12:38 PM »
Nothing was changed on the Payload server, I'll look at your graphs and run my own tests when I come back home later tonight. I'll update my post.

Update:
I'm not getting constant loss/choke like in your screenshot, but there is occasional stuttering. Loss and choke can often be fixed by modifying client rates, but I'll take a look at our server rates. With SteamPipe, values have changed a bit.

The occasional stuttering does occur more on Payload #1 than on Payload #2, which makes sense since Payload #1 is pretty much full 24/7. I will try restarting the machine when possible (when servers are empty), it should help a bit.

Finally, I'll try to see if I can move the servers to slightly better hardware. This requires more time, so I'll let you guys know.
--
To check server tickrate, use net_graph 4. It's the bottom "sv" value, it very rarely drops below 66.7.
If you guys get a lot of stuttering and/or heavy choke/loss, please take a few screenshots (or a video) and post them here along with time of day and which server you were playing on. That would really help me.

« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 12:04:10 AM by Plasma »
Public Group:
--
Private Group:

Wolfpup

  • TF2 Admin - Rank: 2
  • Junior Admin
  • ***
  • Posts: 336
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Country: ca
  • Karma: +4/-26
    • View Profile
Re: Lag issues lately
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2013, 07:11:22 AM »
I have a question coming from a discussion on my ISP's forums.

Someone was encouraged to go from a 20Mbps line to a 50Mbps line to improve their gaming experience. (Lag.) I suggested it was bad advice, as games use very little in the way of data transfer. A (different) rep. suggested this bump would help, when I say it wont. He then agreed, and suggested it was the up speed that may be an issue.

It got me thinking, I have 0.5Mbps up speed with my 20Mbps line. He suggested that may be an issue.

So here I am, asking you folks, do you think 0.5Mbps up could be an issue? Would 2.5Mbps up be better, or do different?
« Last Edit: December 11, 2013, 07:13:34 AM by Wolfpup »

n.

  • Verified Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Country: 00
  • Karma: +0/-5
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Lag issues lately
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2013, 09:58:50 AM »
Great, thanks for looking into it Plasma.  It's definitely a sporadic thing, sometimes it's worse than others. I'll try playing around with my rates. Sometimes latency is affected as well - usually I'm in the 80s, but sometimes it jumps up to 110/120 for hours at a time and then goes back down. I would think it's my connection or ISP, but it doesn't seem to affect other servers when it's happening. I'll get some more screenshots when it's bad again.

Wolfpup: 500k up is plenty for games, as long as you've got nothing - and i mean nothing - else going on at the same time.

In general, though, it's more about latency and loss for gaming, not total bw.

Wolfpup

  • TF2 Admin - Rank: 2
  • Junior Admin
  • ***
  • Posts: 336
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Country: ca
  • Karma: +4/-26
    • View Profile
Re: Lag issues lately
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2013, 10:18:11 AM »
That's what I thought too. Thanks.

Now I'm playing with cl_"whatever" commands in my autoexec to try and sort out choke. (Not terrible, but there from time to time.)

n.

  • Verified Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Country: 00
  • Karma: +0/-5
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Lag issues lately
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2013, 10:14:46 AM »
UPDATE: The past couple of nights the server has been much better, 0 loss pretty much all night while the server was full. This morning, the high packet loss is back. It's 12:09pm central (10am there?) and the attached screenshot shows what im seeing. I did set all my config parameters (update/cmd rate etc) back to their defaults, which seems to have fixed the accompanying choke i was getting, but the loss remains. Right after this I jumped onto another full 32player server just to make sure it wasn't me, and got no loss :(

Edit: And now it's fixed again? 12:19pm central.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2013, 10:21:24 AM by n. »

Plasma

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2266
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Country: us
  • Karma: +59/-1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • HyperionGaming.org
Re: Lag issues lately
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2013, 11:12:14 PM »
OK this is useful because I'm not experiencing much loss at all when I'm playing.
I'll keep checking.
Public Group:
--
Private Group:

Wolfpup

  • TF2 Admin - Rank: 2
  • Junior Admin
  • ***
  • Posts: 336
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Country: ca
  • Karma: +4/-26
    • View Profile
Re: Lag issues lately
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2013, 06:52:17 AM »
I've been monitoring net_graph myself more lately and I to have been seeing 'loss' up to 10, and 'choke' hit's 9, but mostly just in spawn. Once I leave spawn, 'choke' settles down. That's when 'loss' takes over. Though not constant, it fluctuates from 0 up to the the aforementioned high of 10. With, like n.'s screen cap, 7 being the "magic" number I see the most.

I've noticed my ping is also 18-20 higher than it has been, but that may be my settings. (cl_interp/etc.) I've been playing with different numbers and manage to get 'lerp' from 15 and orange to 30 and white. (White being preferable even at a higher number as I understand it.)

I'll continue to play around, including removing all my autoexec settings regarding this. (Pls note I get the gist of this stuff but I'm no pro that's for sure.)

Wolfpup

  • TF2 Admin - Rank: 2
  • Junior Admin
  • ***
  • Posts: 336
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Country: ca
  • Karma: +4/-26
    • View Profile
Re: Lag issues lately
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2013, 11:49:00 AM »
So n., do you use an autoexec.cfg ?

Been playing with the numbers? (See below.) Or have you left it default?

I tried reverting back to default, but found it to be kinda bad. I then tried the "standard" internet recommendation using these settings:

cl_cmdrate 66
cl_updaterate 66
cl_interp 0.0152
cl_interp_ratio 1

...and it seems to be not to bad. I still get 'loss' and 'choke' but it's less prevalent and the numbers do not go as high. 'Loss' seems to hit 5 but mostly less. 'Choke' went to 4 a few times outside spawn but the game seems to work better. It feels like my shots hit more often rather than go "right through" who I am shooting. (Because on their end of the internet, they are "not really there" any more due to lag compensation.)

I still want to monitor this more but so far, those numbers seem to be the best. Oh yeah, and lerp is still white @ 30.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2013, 11:50:50 AM by Wolfpup »

[SLUG] God Loves Ugly :D

  • Verified Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 55
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Lag issues lately
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2013, 03:52:35 PM »
In the last few weeks my ping has gone upwards of 500+ at times. I thought it was me so I checked my connection/router but then I noticed that when the lag spikes occurred, other people were experiencing them as well. I live pretty close to San Jose so I usually have 20 or lower ping. Played today and didn't notice any further lag so the issue seems to have been remedied. J

ApatheticMango

  • Verified Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 99
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Country: us
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Lag issues lately
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2013, 06:48:06 PM »
I live pretty close to the servers in San Jose and I notice the server-wide lag spike too. It's rare though.

Plasma

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2266
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Country: us
  • Karma: +59/-1
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • HyperionGaming.org
Re: Lag issues lately
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2013, 10:09:03 PM »
The San Jose location has been hit by big DDOS attacks (not our servers specifically, the location) several times this month. The connection to Internap is supposed to be upgraded to 10Gbps soon. It won't prevent all DDOS, but it should help a bit. There's unfortunately nothing I can do on my end.
These attacks are usually stopped in 10-15min max, but they will cause several packet loss (and massive lag) when they hit.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2013, 10:10:55 PM by Plasma »
Public Group:
--
Private Group: