*AuthorTopic: Autojoin Only  (Read 4680 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

YO! Sushi

  • Verified Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • SECRET, not telling u anythin bou me, u stalker!
    • View Profile
Autojoin Only
« on: July 17, 2014, 11:08:27 PM »




First off, please take a look at the pic I've added.
(No intention of accusing someone specifically, sorry if your name is shown in it)

As you can see, all of my hyperion friends are on the same team.
This CAN NOT happen if you don't pick the team on purpose.
Playing with friends on the same team is fun.
But, this is causing a problem.

I'd call it a "Teamstacking problem" here.
This is not new or unusual at all.
Those wearing the RNG tag tend to join the same team. (Just an expample, sorry :c)
Like they do, other hyperion regulars (of course, not everyone) do that.
When this happens, something start to change.
It is that one team keeps winning. (Yup, teamstack)
Nobody wants to keep losing.
And I don't want to play if either team is TOO GOOD since it's not even fun.
I feel it's fun when both teams are equal in "skill" and I don't mind if I lose.
How do you feel when you can clearly tell that your team is gonna lose?

What I see after the round end is ragequits.
Not just one or two players, like four or even more.
In the screenshot, there are 5 people in spec including me.
It's clear that they are unwilling to join blue "for some reason".
inb4 you call me a teamstacker: You won't see me playing with sofaking, mmm_cookies, ken, Rina etc x)

You might think forcing autojoin will lose player traffic.
But, as far as I know, if you keep letting people teamstack will also lose player trafic.
Note: (-TN-) server is forcing autojoin IIRC

However, as part of Donor memberships, those who donated should be able to pick a team to keep this awesome server running.
Also, "!Addbuddy" looks ok cause it only allows to players to play on the same team.
That won't be a problem.

Hoping nobody would say "Go play on other servers" or something like that.
This is a suggestion.
I like this server and would love to keep playing here.

Thanks.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2014, 12:31:51 AM by YO! Sushi »
YO, MANE! WASSUP, MANE? I'M YO SUSHI! U KNOE ME?

cowking

  • Moo
  • Donor
  • ****
  • Posts: 24
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Country: us
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Moo
    • View Profile
Re: Autojoin Only
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2014, 09:23:14 PM »
You forgot Team EMC stacked.

Wolfpup

  • TF2 Admin - Rank: 2
  • Junior Admin
  • ***
  • Posts: 329
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Country: ca
  • Karma: +4/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Autojoin Only
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2014, 09:37:46 AM »
It's called "not trying" not "stacking". I've seen people claiming stacking, when I was on the losing team, and I just had to look at the classes, and it was blatantly obvious why we where losing...it had nothing to do with stacking, but a lack of trying. There is a difference.

If one team (Blu in this case) has 3 medics, good balance of assault/support and the other, 1 or no medics, and say 1 or no engies...but 6 Spy-Pers, 3 scoots....what the hell do you expect? Of course Blu is going to blast through.

Why does EMC like to play together? Because we know we have each others backs....ya know, we try. I also like that most EMC people use their mics, again, they try...a big part of why I continue to play this cluster-frag of a game is because of the people, who use mics. I like the in-game banter along with the call outs.

So, again, I see no problem with "stacking"...just a lack of "trying". (If I haven't made it clear by now.)

Welcome to online gaming. Where your fun is based on other people.

Enforcer and I have actively tried to help teams that get rolled, by switching teams. I don't do it as much anymore because most of the time, I find the above. Why bother trying to help teams that don't help themselves?

YO! Sushi

  • Verified Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • SECRET, not telling u anythin bou me, u stalker!
    • View Profile
Re: Autojoin Only
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2014, 07:32:50 PM »
"It's called "not trying" not "stacking". I've seen people claiming stacking, when I was on the losing team, and I just had to look at the classes, and it was blatantly obvious why we where losing...it had nothing to do with stacking, but a lack of trying."
I see no definition of "stacking" in your comment. Did you just substitute the word or what?
To me, it looks like you are just trying to justify what you are doing (stacking).

If some players don't even try, does that mean other people on the same team also have to lose?
You can't force them to play harder.
You can't make them change their classes.
Get real.

This will make MORE people to join a better team.
The first thing you have to do to win *on this server* is join a better team?
That sounds really stupid.

Also, if you are 99% sure your team is going to lose, you would try "less harder" than when you are on the team which is probably going to win.

"Welcome to online gaming. Where your fun is based on other people."
If your fun is based on other people, teams should be made as fair as possible by forcing autojoin.
Or do you have any other way to do so if you are not "new" to online gaming?

edit: according to the urban dictionary
team stack: (Counter-Strike definition) Occurs when only one team (counter-terrorist or terrorist)has all the good players. When a player from the losing team joins the winning team, just so he or she doesn't lose.
(if counter-terrorists were winning) :xxxxx has joined the counter terrerist team:

Yeah, I really doubt the blue team is going to win (pic1).
You know that.
Why?
It's not cause that blue team isn't trying hard enough, but cause red team has good players.
Don't tell me you don't know those on the red are good or not.

And I even see people who go afk on purpose to join the other obviously "winning" team by making someone get autobalanced, which is a pain to see.
According to your opinion, we should be trying hard instead of doing such a thing, right?
Is it still justifiable?
« Last Edit: July 19, 2014, 08:19:03 PM by YO! Sushi »
YO, MANE! WASSUP, MANE? I'M YO SUSHI! U KNOE ME?

Wolfpup

  • TF2 Admin - Rank: 2
  • Junior Admin
  • ***
  • Posts: 329
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Country: ca
  • Karma: +4/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Autojoin Only
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2014, 08:25:41 AM »
You are welcome to your opinion, I just don't agree with it.

ATARIS

  • Verified Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 194
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Karma: +9/-16
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Autojoin Only
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2014, 12:17:53 PM »
I understand what you are saying, but let me say that there are clear instances when ALL rng people in the server join the same team and we still end up losing anyway.  I think the same goes for people on my friends list all ending up on the same team and still getting rolled.  It's really situational if you ask me. 

YO! Sushi

  • Verified Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • SECRET, not telling u anythin bou me, u stalker!
    • View Profile
Re: Autojoin Only
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2014, 11:15:38 PM »
Uhh, RNG people's stacking isn't a problem since the way they (I mean you guys) try to have fun doesn't affect others i.e. Couch jumping with base jumper and sticky sniping from the air x)

As an example I'm using some people's stats here.
http://stats.hyperiongaming.org/playerinfo/57713 Sofaking - win ratio 63%
http://stats.hyperiongaming.org/playerinfo/72300 Ataris - win ratio 55%
http://stats.hyperiongaming.org/playerinfo/42639 Me - 49%
http://stats.hyperiongaming.org/playerinfo/165350 Wollfpup - 52%
http://stats.hyperiongaming.org/playerinfo/2615 Cowking - 56%
http://stats.hyperiongaming.org/playerinfo/113320 june. - 68% wow (I know he's pro)

http://stats.hyperiongaming.org/playerinfo/108971 women-tiger 61%
women-tiger is not a stacker at all, however, his win ratio is kinda high.
I see him autojoin (≒ blue team) first.
I really like him on this point (as well as how nice a person he is).
And then other players including hyperion regulars start to join blue.
There should be more *good* people like him so nobody has to think of a stupid thing like which team's gonna win and just use autojoin.

A friend of my told me he join a team on which his friends are playing on so he can have fun playing with them.
It's understandable, I like playing with friends as well.
But, IMO that's not the only way to have fun with friends.
Even if you are on the other team, you can still have fun (i.e. dueling).

edit: to show what is actually happening
screenshot right after the round end
If Wolfpup is right, the blue team is not trying and should have many deaths.
But they have MORE deaths than red has (x2).
I mean blue teams was trying.

pasted texts before the round starts showing how people are joining red
Player Winston joined team BLU
Player StuPickles! :) joined team RED
Player 0ps was automatically assigned to team BLU
[SMAC] This server is protected by SourceMod Anti-Cheat.
Player ᴿᴺᴳ JimmyKing 鬍子 joined team RED
Player <- stacking faggot (๏̯๏) joined team Spectator
Tusarja (Pos 1,777, 10,654 points) connected (Japan)
Player foolman:-) joined team BLU
Player .DEMO 2 EZ PLZ NERF joined team RED
Player Green.and.Gold #RCTID was automatically assigned to team BLU
Player Drunk Uncle joined team RED
Hat Hat Revolution 2 (Pos 1,890, 9,393 points) connected (United States)
Player june. joined team Spectator
Player (HK)LARRY joined team BLU
Player Hat Hat Revolution 2 joined team RED
Player Meg-Meg joined team BLU
Player june. joined team RED
Player Direwolf was automatically assigned to team BLU
foolman:-) :  special plaxe
Player c l o u d b u s t e r joined team RED
Player Mitchell4468 was automatically assigned to team BLU
Player KeN..♫ joined team RED
Blue team couldn't even cap the 3rd point and teams were scrambled.

Please try to look at the problem.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2014, 12:41:01 AM by YO! Sushi »
YO, MANE! WASSUP, MANE? I'M YO SUSHI! U KNOE ME?

Wolfpup

  • TF2 Admin - Rank: 2
  • Junior Admin
  • ***
  • Posts: 329
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Country: ca
  • Karma: +4/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Autojoin Only
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2014, 08:14:22 AM »
I understand what you are saying, but let me say that there are clear instances when ALL rng people in the server join the same team and we still end up losing anyway.  I think the same goes for people on my friends list all ending up on the same team and still getting rolled.  It's really situational if you ask me.

Yup. Ya can't win em all as they say.

chuy409

  • Donor
  • ****
  • Posts: 89
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Country: mx
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Autojoin Only
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2014, 01:53:10 PM »
yea, ataris is right. I have seen all rng in one team and get slaughtered. I dont think "teamstack" is really a thing in my book. I have joined so many combinations of teams that anything could happen. One game, we get steam rolled. Next match after that, no auto balance, and we dominate. It all comes down to the individual player if he is willing to put in the effort. That is all.

Plasma

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2214
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Country: us
  • Karma: +38/-0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • HyperionGaming.org
Re: Autojoin Only
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2014, 10:07:19 PM »
This is difficult, because if we were to force autojoin, we would make a lot of people unhappy for lots of good reasons. If we were to allow Donors to choose their teams, we would most likely be facing the same issues since we have a lot of donors playing on this server.

I'm glad the system works for TN, but I think the main issue is we only have one popular server. If we had at least one more, our regulars/donors would be a bit more spread out especially in the evening/weekends (peak traffic).

The Payload server is just a bit too crowded right now, that's why we've tried to get a second server started multiple times, but it never was successful. It's just very difficult to start a brand new server nowadays, especially with a small community like ours.
--

I know what you mean, and unfortunately, some players will always choose to join the winning team. When I play, I always pick Random... but I play Sniper so I don't need a pocket medic or to play with a friend.

If we were to force Autojoin, we would have to force it on everybody even Donors to see actual results. I bet we would see players reconnecting to get on the team they want or staying in Spectators, etc...

I don't think we'll be using Autojoin for now. We still have the auto scramble plugin that helps a little bit balance teams out, and nobody is immune. Just with the Auto scramble, you'll see a lot of players complain they got moved to the losing team or scrambling happens too often. It's not the best solution obviously (from your screenshots), but it helps a little bit.
--

I think the main issue is the Payload server is too crowded during peak hours.
Public Group:
--
Private Group:

chuy409

  • Donor
  • ****
  • Posts: 89
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Country: mx
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Autojoin Only
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2014, 11:10:17 AM »
I smell 64 player servers :)

If Counter strike: source can do 64 players, so can TF2. They also break some barriers with MVM with all those slots...

JackCnKing

  • Verified Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 177
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Country: ca
  • Karma: +2/-6
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • Steam Profile
Re: Autojoin Only
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2014, 12:15:07 PM »
I always go for auto-join anyway :)

Plasma

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 2214
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Country: us
  • Karma: +38/-0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • HyperionGaming.org
Re: Autojoin Only
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2014, 12:22:07 PM »
I smell 64 player servers :)

If Counter strike: source can do 64 players, so can TF2. They also break some barriers with MVM with all those slots...

There are mods on www.sourcemod.net that try to modify MvM to add more players, but from my experience, TF2 cannot support more than 32 players, and I'm not even talking about performance. Then again, I'm no coder, so maybe it's possible. I'm not sure it would be fun though. 32 players is already quite "chaotic".
Public Group:
--
Private Group:

elcarO

  • Verified Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 9
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Country: us
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Autojoin Only
« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2014, 12:26:04 PM »
I see it happen often on the payload server, but at least the teams get scrambled should it get too out of control.  If it went on longer I would also have an issue, but for now a single round of being pwnd is something I can handle.

chuy409

  • Donor
  • ****
  • Posts: 89
  • Activity:
    0%
  • Country: mx
  • Karma: +3/-0
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Autojoin Only
« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2014, 12:46:05 PM »
There are mods on www.sourcemod.net that try to modify MvM to add more players, but from my experience, TF2 cannot support more than 32 players, and I'm not even talking about performance. Then again, I'm no coder, so maybe it's possible. I'm not sure it would be fun though. 32 players is already quite "chaotic".

Yea, dont know why performance is crap. Source engine is like the lightest engine i have played on. I had a Phenom 955 OC to 4.2 ghz and i would still get dips around the 30s. That was paired with a 770. Then i upgraded to a 4770k. OC to 4.4 and i get dips around the 60s. Still pretty bad for a game from 2007. I dont even think ive had dips that extreme even on Battlefield 4.